TheNearPost've always wondered how we would look in this formation simply because it's practically built for a team like us that has two dangerous playmakers/attacking midfielders to play in the "2" and plenty of hard-working midfielders to play in the "3". The draw back would be having Altidore in the lone striker role, but I actually think he's looked very consistently good there.
What's more, I could easily see Klinsmann playing this formation considering how similar it is to the 4-3-1-2 we played against Slovenia, especially since he now has to find a way to fit Donovan and Dempsey into the starting XI.
18.12.2011
pandaldinhoThis looks more like a lopsided 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2-2. Man City, for example, often play Milner where Shea is placed and Silva where Donovan is depicted. Aguero and Balotelli play off one another making the movement as indicated for Dempsey.
A 4-3-2-1 is, more traditionally, like Milan circa 2004 with Rui Costa and Kaka playing off Inzaghi or Shevchenko. More recently, you could point towards Lille with Hazard and Cole/Payet, played only nominally as wingers, moving behind the sole striker Sow.
In this case, you could drop Shea for a more central player and instead play Dempsey and Donovan as nominal wingers who play off Altidore.
19.12.2011
TheNearPostThat sort of hybrid look between a 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, and a 4-2-2-2/4-4-2 is generally what I was going for. It suits the different players very well I think - Donovan can come inside and play underneath the striker(s) just like he wants to, but he can also move wide. Dempsey is dangerous close to goal and or in the hole, so he's given freedom to move up top and wait for service, or drop into the midfield to receive and/or combine. Shea's role takes a lot of energy/stamina, and that's something he has plenty of. He defends in the center, forming a trio with Bradley and Edu, but can move wide in attack. That said, he should also be allowed to stay in the center, because he's dangerous when he's allowed to making surging runs off the ball, or on the ball. One moment that sticks in my head was his sensational goal against Sporting Kansas City - he picked up the ball deep and central and proceeded to dribble through four Sporting Kansas City players before finishing deftly to the far post. He can clearly be good from wide areas, but that goal doesn't happen if he he's hugging the touchline.
What's more, I'd like to see Torres where Edu is. I think Torres gets way to bad of a rap for the match against Slovenia, and this comes from someone who wasn't really all that kean on his inclusion all the time. The match against Turkey was a great indicator of his ability. He shows great defensive positional sense and bite, similar to how Michael Carrick isn't really a destroyer, but puts himself in good spots to make tackles/interceptions. His actual tackles can be suspect though. That said, the amount of possession he gives can allow us to play a guy more willing to get involved in attack, the same way Pirlo will play next to someone who actually gets forward, while he himself dictates possession and spreads play.
25.12.2011
pandaldinhoI'd rather the 2 be nominal wingers in terms of defensive responsibility, though. Shea would be doing a two-man defensive job making his attacking responsibility - on which that fairly uncreative midfield relies on - weakened.
I'm (half-)Norwegian, so I'd also propose Mix Diskerud being closer to the first XI. He played a very disciplined role for Stabæk this year after Henning Hauger was sold, and he'll continue in that vein when he moves to Lillestrøm this winter. So, despite having the flair and creativity of one of the forward roles, his overall game in Norway is being rounded perfectly for the USMNT.
28.12.2011
TheNearPostI'd say that the role suits Shea really well. The kid can, and will, run forever. He's a two-way player, actively involved in attack and defense. I understand that the role could hinder Shea in an attacking sense, but I think his and Donovan's roles bring good balance to the side. They can both move wide or surge through the middle. Besides, Shea isn't supposed to necessarily be the main attacking threat here. He is dangerous for sure.
I'm also interested to hear about Mikkel Diskerud, a player who I've only seen play for the youth team and twice for the senior team. I've heard he played sort of as a defensive/deep-lying midfielder for Stabaek in the same vain as Pirlo. If so, I'd be really interested in seeing him play for the USA more often.
28.12.2011
pandaldinhoI just think that, like Chelsea under Ancelotti or Lille currently, the 2 in the 4-3-2-1 should be deployed directly against the opposition full backs. Against a traditional 4-4-2, this line-up would be fatally prone to counter attacks because of Shea having to cover two free wide men. So if, for example, we propose Donovan to press the left back and Dempsey one centre back, this would simply be a lop-sided 4-2-2-2, as aforementioned. For this to work as a 4-3-2-1, Shea would have to be a) the free man in the centre of midfield (i.e. the man unoccupied by a marker when against a 4-4-2) and b) marking one man/have a smaller zone of defence. Otherwise, the opposition have several men with time on the ball.
Re Mix: he's played more of a combustible role beside the calmer Pontus Farnerud, ergo the latter is playing as Pirlo. At Lillestrøm, he'll be beside a more patent defensive midfield destroyer, Guy Toindouba, so will be asked to play as the main deep-lying distributor (Alonso to Mascherano at Liverpool circa 2008). For USA, then, he'd give more of a defined role than Bradley, who seemingly adds little more than work-rate.
30.12.2011
TheNearPostThe way I'm using Donovan and Dempsey, they'll basically both be occupying the oppositions' deep lying midfielder, with Dempsey a bit more tightly on him and Donovan something like late support. Donovan is given freedom to either move wide or stay central, and Dempsey is given freedom to drop and receive or push up and wait for service.
The nature of Shea's role can make him a bit more difficult to mark, and might be enough to make him the free man. If not, it could drag a central midfielder out of position and make space in the middle of the park. Defensively, he would be helping press the two central midfielders in, for example, a 4-4-2, while Edu mops up behind them.
That said, the weaknesses of a 4-3-2-1 have been exploited in the Serie A plenty of times, and it's exactly as you say - the fullbacks. They're left completely free, and if they're good enough, can turn the tide of a match. That's simply the danger of playing that shape. Teams that play the 4-4-2 run the risk of getting out numbered in the central midfield, like what happened to the USA against Ghana ( http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/26/ghana-2-1-united-states-tactics/).
01.01.2012
pandaldinhoI'm aware of the weaknesses of the 4-3-2-1, but it is most successfully used with the attacking midfielders playing a very distinctive role. The 'trequartista' is all but dead; everyone has to defend now. Even 'freeing' players of tactical responsibility has been with players intuitively pressing (read: Gerrard, originally a defensive midfielder, in Liverpool's 4-2-3-1). Donovan and/or Dempsey must, thus, have defined zones to defend. If they're doing nothing more than 'occupying' players who are already going to be marked, then you're denying the opportunity of 'occupying' several other players.
You could get away with doing as such if you're guaranteed possession; dominating the centre with a 3-1-3-3 is easy for Barcelona.
06.01.2012
TheNearPostI can understand more defined roles, and as I've said, Donovan will help Dempsey occupy the oppositions deepest defensive midfielder(s). On offense, he gets the freedom to drift wide. Defensively a bit more defined, and offensively a bit more loose, basically.
10.01.2012
JoynertwI'd honestly just turn it into a straight 4-2-3-1 and give Shea, Dempsey, and Donovan the freedom to switch positions under Altidore, but primarily Dempsey sits in the hole, Shea left, and Donovan Right.
13.01.2012
TheNearPostThat's an option that I'd like to see tried. This is just one that might suit Donovan and Dempsey more since there is less defensive work for them...
13.01.2012
JoynertwI don't think Donovan minds doing the defensive work to be honest. In fact the USMNT is such a hard working group including Altidore that defensive pressure and pressing is never going to be an issue. Dempsey is really the only one that doesn't work hard. Sitting in the hole though he really only has to pick up DM and CBs so it's not to bad. Donovan and Shea have to do the dirty work in a straight 4-2-3-1 and I don't think either of them would mind or have a problem physically with that.
14.01.2012
TheNearPostI don't think Donovan minds doing it either, but the idea is to have him in a good position as soon as the USA wins the ball back. Moreover, Donovan is getting up there in years. Don't put the crutches on the guy yet of course, but we have to start thinking about not asking him to do things that are not quite as physically taxing. He's not old, but the slope is seemingly starting.
20.01.2012
