nvrThis was bound to happen of course. One day two teams with great history and footballing culture would have to clash at play off stages of Champions League and one of them would be out. What for? To open a space for a crap excommunist microstate's champion...Now the day has come, a fine example of Platini's stupid romanticism. Celtic and Arsenal play in August. And it won't be the last I tell you...
Is there such a thing as vote of no confidence in UEFA? Can Platini be ousted from the office? I'd really prefer to see someone with some sense of business at his seat.
Rant over.
07.08.2009
Robert O'CarlosI can see both sides of the argument here, but for argument's sake, I'll argue with your argument, nvr.
:-)
Platini is spot on in his attempts to introduce 'competition' back into football. European campaigns are becoming as stale as the major leagues with the same teams filling the usual slots again and again, a cycle which is self-perpetuating because of the money involved in these campaigns.
This is only a tiny step towards a levelling of the global playing field, but a step in the right direction nonetheless.
:-)
09.08.2009
nvrCeltic consistently offer a fight for the second spot in a CL group. What will the club formerly known as Dinamo Chernobyl offer? A fight for gaining a point? A fight for not being the team who conceded the most goals in a campaiggn? You'll see what stale is when top rwo teams guarantee their spots after the first three games.
10.08.2009
Robert O'CarlosAgain, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Don't necessarily hold with this as an opinion - just trying to provide the other side.
:-)
So the argument is that the gulf between the top sides and the rest of football should be actively encouraged then?
You'd be happy for a team that didn't win their domestic league (Celtic) or a team that finished 4th (Arsenal) to have an easier route into Europe than an ex-communist microstate's champion?
11.08.2009
nvrI truly believe that Cup Winners'Cup, Champion Clubs' Cup and UEFA Cup are things of the past. They are cups of the times where football meant more politics than money.
I eventually want to see a Europe League where national leagues serve as a lower league. I always saw CL as a step towards that and really hate it being reverted.
Would Celtic be the champions with their current squad in Macedonia? Highly probably. Arsenal? Hands down. So, yes, I'd rather see Celtic and Arsenal in CL...
If Platini really wants to close the gap between the weak and the top sides, maybe he can start tightining the grip on the national FAs. Why not impose financial rules on FAs as well as the clubs? It'll cost him friends and his presidency tho...
Why not allow regional leagues? Give the Scandinavian league a green light, and bam, you give Goteborg, Rosenborg, Malmo and Brondby a competitive season, which will improve their chances in international tournements.
The list of things that can be done is endless. But Platini has no interest in improving things in European football, he is just doing a Eurovision in UEFA.
11.08.2009
Robert O'CarlosOkay, time to jump off the fence. To be honest, I'd have to agree with a lot of the points you make here - was only batting for the other side for balance.
:-)
The one thing I would say is that European competition should mean it's for Europe rather than a select few countries which happen to have the most attractive teams. If that means seeing some of the lesser known teams, so be it.
Maybe we just have to accept that football will eventually lose its working class ethic, if it hasn't already.
13.08.2009
nvrThe day Sky Sports got the broadcasting rights, that working class ethic died a sudden death in Britain. I am not sure if it ever existed overseas...
13.08.2009
RoberticusWhat makes me laugh is that in Spain, especially in the Madrid press, people are convinced that Platini has an anti-Spanish agenda. Richard Keys is convinced that, no, hang-on, it's an anti-English agenda.
Platini may be mistaken in many areas, and I'm not sure as to the feasability of some of his proposals. But when he his pissing off two sectors as powerful as the Murdoch media and the Marca, As groups, I feel he can't be all that bad!
16.08.2009
nvrWenger took it a step further and predicted that we will have a European League. He reckons this i all due to money matters. Now you may or may not like the man but when it comes to financial matters you have to take what he says seriously.
18.08.2009
RoberticusI fully agree with Wenger. Note, Wenger is not opposed to commercialisation in football per se. Clubs can earn all they want from gates, sponsorship, merchandising and TV deals as they see fit. What he opposes though, is financial doping for the purposes of just buying up players and distorting the market. The man is pointing out a reasonable way forward. But who will have the foresight and guts to listen to him?
02.09.2009
SpaceGhostDon't really have an opinion on the subject at hand, but one comment definately interests me. Robert O'Carlos wrote, "Maybe we just have to accept that football will eventually lose its working class ethic, if it hasn't already."
In general, it seems that all things which attain a critical mass of social interest become co-opted by those with money, and then their assets are directed towards control of said "thing." For example, hunting for game, regardless of what the game was, once was the pure domain of the rural lower class who sought to add to the kitchen table. Today wealthy men pay to have private hunting leases or go on guided hunting trips to the point that hunting has become almost impossible for those who were the original practicioners of the craft. There are other sports which have followed this pattern.
However, places like Cuba still churn out remarkable boxers and baseball players in spite of the resources available. And in Brazil, a 12 year old who is sent to live, train and study in the dorms of the juvenals team of Corinthians knows that if he performs poorly at practice tomorrow he might be sent home to the favela and a family that can't afford to feed him. That is the motivation that produces World Cup Champions.
So, I would offer the hypothesis that the existence or lack of a "working class ethic" in football is a regional/national phenomenon, and consequently descriptive of the culture of that specific region or nation.
02.09.2009
nvr@SpaceGhost
Working class ethic is deffo a British thing. Many nations do not even have classes in the British sense and they still play football. I guess it's fair to say that football has outgrown its sociolagical boundries long ago.
04.09.2009
