jimreapadont take too much notice of postioning of players in the bottom half, they are just first choice substitutes.
01.07.2011
jimreapaadd alex chamberlain to the subs aswell
01.07.2011
jimreapaand i forgot gervinho...new players are: willian, gervinho, chamberlain, lukaku, cahill, samba, alvarez, m'vila and hazard - players out are: fabregas, clichy, nasri, rosicky, arshavin, one of either squillaci or djourou, denilson and bendtner. With lansbury, emmanual-thomas, frimpong, eastmond, wellington silva, ryo miyachi and miquel, watt and murphy going out on loans to get vital experience. Id also bring martinez up to the first squad as 3rd maybe 4th choice keeper
01.07.2011
nvrI don't think Vela will be kept in squad. Song is hands down better than M'Vila, swap places. I don't know what to make of van Persie in the midfield.
01.07.2011
Karl EdsonM'vila far better than Song, mate. M'Vila - Wilshere dream central midfield for years to come.
01.07.2011
Aidan0syeah I have to agree with karl edson m'vila is way better than song
01.07.2011
nvrHow is he way better than Song? One in form season in French league means nothing. We've seen enough of French starlets as bench warmers in PL.
02.07.2011
jimreapaM'Vila is a france international, one of the first names on the sheet atm, he is tipped to be france captain in next couple of years. He is alot better than song.
03.07.2011
jimreapaOh and Van Persie being in midfield isnt that bad since he was a playing as a left winger/attacking midfielder alot before he came to arsenal. The formation doesnt do justice to the plan, m'vila would be holding, wilshere in the middle and van persie behind the striker. I chose to start lukaku instead of Gervinho because lukaku is a better target man capable of holding the ball up and bullying defenders more than Gervinho.
03.07.2011
nvrMeh, Obertan was the next big thing, how many starts did he get with United? Being in French national side does not mean anything these days. It's not 1998, you know...
03.07.2011
Aidan0s@nvr How many people actually thought obertan was going to be next best thing, 90% of people who are described as the next best thing and aren't is due to lazy journalism if people actually watch the players it will usually be fairly obvious. Anyone who actually watched him would have known otherwise. any attention he did get was from when he was playing with the french under 21 team and not from playing inthe french league. Eventhough this french team isn't as good as the 98 team on either an individual basis or on collective level they still are one of the best teams on an individual basis now. He has alot of good competion now Toulalan, lass, alou diarra etc. Yann m'vila is a fine player and a much better one than song. How many non arsenal supporters who have have seen enough of m'vila would agree with you.
03.07.2011
nvrM'vila can be a talent. It takes more than talent to succseed in English football. Song has already proven that he has what it takes to make it in PL. M'vila is yet to do so. Until he proves that he can pull a season without a winter break, playing 40+ games, he's not better than Song in my book.
03.07.2011
Karl Edsonnvr, your obviously a big fan of Song, so am I but both Vidal and M'Vila are better than him. You've got a point saying we need established and proven quality, but otherwise you're biased. I'd also say that holding the midfield and cope with the pressure at midfield was the most underestimated weakness of our team this season. (noone was really up this challenge at midfield : relaxing the defenders, filling the gaps, holding the ball, and securing our advantage)
18.07.2011
nvrI'd say, he's the most underrated player in Arsenal's squad. I don't remember a poor performance from him, he was there when needed, always reliable. I am a bit frustrated by the antics of our so called stars, van Persie, Fabregas, Nasri etc...and believe Song deserves a lot more credit than them.
18.07.2011
mbillington10Anyone saying M'Vila is currently playing at a higher level than Song, can only be talking about their Football Manager game, or perhaps FIFA.
Song has been one of Arsenal's most important players in the past two seasons. Hugely underappreciated, he is the reason why Wilshere, Fabregas and Nasri have excelled alongside him in centre midfield. He plays for Arsenal, a club playing in arguably the strongest division in the world, and consistent champions league contenders for a number of years. In addition, he was a mainstay in the Cameroon national team prior to a disagreement with the coach.
M'Vila on the other hand, plays for Rennes, a modest club that has finished 6th in the French league. He doesn't have any champions league experience, and currently plays for both France U21s and the senior team, which reflects his status as a player with good ability and potential, but not fully developed enough to be a regular.
The reason people always fantacise about foreign players rather than the ones currently playing for thier own clubs is that they haven't seen them play as much, therefore are less aware of their weaknesses.
Of course, M'vila may eventually move to a huge club, play at the top level and reach his maximum performance level, therefore he may become better than Song. However, he may not move clubs, and never progress to the top level, that is the nature of having 'potential'.
I agree with nvr, to suggest M'Vila is currently a better player than Alex Song is simply not true, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, other than perhaps the amount of stars he has on football manager.
18.07.2011
Karl EdsonHi again.
I don't know about M'Vila on Football Manager as I don't play these games. All I know is I am french and I follow both Ligue 1 matches and my national team. I am very aware of M'Vila weaknesses, as I saw them at the end of the past season. They have mainly been physical, due to a lack of preparation for a whole season. It really is my opinion, however, as an Arsenal FC fan, that M'Vila is intrinsically a better player than Song. Yet, you both have a point saying Song is proven and experienced. Perhaps is he also one of the 3 best DMs in the league.
But from a very unbiased point of view, M'Vila has more intrinsic qualities than Song. Quicker, better passer, better technique. His performances were less irresistible during the last month of the competition. Got tired and lost some kind of motivation. This revealed his very weakness. In this sense, perhaps is he too young, not experienced enough, so you have a point somehow. He is not performing for France U21s by the way. He is a starter for France A. He has been compelling for us all this year except one match. He's an improved version of Song AND Diaby. It's not a question of potential anymore, it was one year ago. But once again, I agree, he still has to prove he can make it at a bigger club.
To be constructive, and not provocative, I also want to say that Song is not underrated. He is a very good asset in our team and many people know that, but I dare say that his playing as a DM may not be the best suited to what we need in the team. I am not sure he is as much influential as you pretend, to make it simple. Both in midfield and in defense. I really want to look at the statistics if you do have them : his coverage on the field, number of balls won, tackles, passes, a footprint of his deployment on the pitch (I have the feeling he wanders a lot). Finally, his psychological radiation on the team is not the most compelling. Remember Vieira, Keane, Tachinardi, Guardiola, van Bommel... These are players that instilled psychological balance, faith and security into a team. I'm not sure Song has this stature. M'Vila already has at Rennes and in the french team, believe me. That tells you a lot but you're right, we can't predict how he's gonna do at a big club. If I could I'd tell Wenger : sign him anyway. Wilshere - M'Vila - Ramsey is a thrilling prospect.
19.07.2011
mbillington10Hi Karl Edson, great comments very insightful and good to hear from somebody who has seen him play regularly.
When I said he was playing for the under 21s, I meant he has only very recently graduated to the French senior team, under Blanc, and would probably have played for the French U21s at this summer's tournament had they qualified.
I'm not sure I agree that it isn't a case of potential anymore, but I can see your point that he isn't a rough diamond any more, you are right that he has matured into an established player.
Song is underrated in the sense that, if you ask arsenal which centre midfielder they would take out to put someone flashy like Ganso in, and 90% would probably say Song, and leave in Wilshere and Fabregas. He's also underrated in that Wilshere and Fabregas always get lauded for their attacking play, particularly their penetrative passes, with no mention of how brilliantly Song holds his position or the work he puts in to allow the others to attack. Although you are right I should imagine Arsenal fans who watch him regularly will appreciate him fully.
I would be careful of attributing too much value to attributes such as speed, and passing ability. Football is about decision making, some of the best players ever have had no pace, but their decision making and positioning mean they don't have to. And with passing ability, it is about choosing the right pass. As a Liverpool fan, I can tell you that Gerrard could pass an orange onto the head of a pin from 60 yards away, but our best passer is Lucas. This is because in situations where Gerrard would hit a raking cross field ball which looks superb but is difficult for the receiver to control, Lucas would pass sideways in a bid to retain possession, reshape the team and start an attacking move.
As for psychological impact, this does not come from individuals. This comes from the club, and resonates from the directors, through the manager and then the players. If you put Lee Bowyer in Arsenal's team, it wouldn't make them more competitive. Why? Because Arsenal's ethos is to play an attacking attractive brand of football, which comes from the manager but is sanctioned by the board (otherwise they may have got rid of Wenger). Thus the club is synonymous with attacking football, anyone who comes in with a different mentality (Like Keane, or Barton) simply wouldn't fit in, and would fracture the team rather than strengthen the mentality. Viera, Keane and Guardiola all had likeminded players around them (Petit, Butt, Amor). These players became key individuals, and captains, but they did it in the image of their clubs, as Cesc has done, you cannot import something like that.
I believe the strongest evidence shows Song to be currently the better player, than M'Vila, and to a lesser extent Vidal. This is because he is playing against much higher quality opposition, where the level of football is much more competitive and difficult than the level M'Vila is currently playing at. Even if M'Vila and Vidal sign, they will need an adjustment period before they get better, this is because they will be adjusting to a more competitive, more difficult level of football. I remain a huge fan of M'Vila and Vidal, two terrific footballers who will hopefully mature into leading midfield players. But the grass is not always greener on the other side
19.07.2011
4321chrissong's better than vidal and m'vila.
20.07.2011
MidgeManJenkinson for Eboue in the lower side probably
24.07.2011
