JimmyGuitaristAnother 2-2 draw for Barcelona. It was an excellent match, but the rain simply ruined it for Barcelona. They couldn't make a pass without the ball stopping half-way through. People say they should adapt to such situations, but we all know they only know how to play in one way. Taking nothing away from Bilbao though, they were brilliant. I'm a fan of there coach, Marcelo Bielsa. He got his tactics spot on. They didn't exactly man-mark, but they pressed all over the pitch and one player was always close to each of Barca's players. This match was a good advert for pro-active defending, and a way to stifle Barcelona somewhat. In my opinion though, it was the rain what threw Barcelona more than anything.
07.11.2011
nvrBilbao couldn't have hold to a draw if it weren't the terrible condition of the pitch. I wouldn't be as generous in giving credit to them.
08.11.2011
JimmyGuitaristBilbao still pressed good. Pep himself said he's never played against a team which denied them so much space. But yeah, I'm convinced it was mostly the rain.
08.11.2011
baekI'm fairly sure it rained for both teams
10.11.2011
nvrAdverse weather and pitch conditions favour defending teams.
10.11.2011
baekI'm fairly sure both teams defended.
They both also attacked hence the score 2-2 :)
12.11.2011
nvrYou are being aristotelian now. Surely, attempts at goal are a better indicator of which team attacked more.
14.11.2011
baekOkay, sorry if i seem that way, however you seem too keen to take away from Bilbaos performance in a deserved draw.
14.11.2011
nvrYou need to put in quite a performance to get something out of a Barca game, that's a given. For lesser teams you also need nature or immense luck behind you.
14.11.2011
baek"nature behind you"? nature doesnt take sides. Conversely by your logic we should say that all of Barca's achievements are due to their extreme luck in having the majority of their games in a clear sunny conditions which favor their style of play.
14.11.2011
nvrWould you rather no have a water logged pitch against Barcelona?
14.11.2011
baekim not sure what your trying to say..
Barca have been held to a draw in the past by a so called "lesser team", and it is not always down to "immense luck". I know it might be hard for you to believe but even Barca have their bad games.
14.11.2011
nvrWeather was the bigger factor. Everyone puts an effort, the lucky ones get the result. The luck maybe in form of weather conditions, or when you play against Barca during the fixtures. If you are lucky you get to play them during their preplanned form dip and even then your goalie must perform semi-miracles that day.
15.11.2011
david1993iker muniain,ander herrera nd javi maritnez great players
15.11.2011
baekIt's a managers job especially at rich clubs like Barca to prepare their team and tactics for rainy weather, blaming a result on luck is just silly. I don't know what your talking about when you say a "preplanned form dip", and I'm not sure what you know what you are saying either.
I find it hard to believe that a team would purposely plan to have a dip in form, maybe they might change up their starting line up with more fringe players but no team "plans" to play badly. unless your talking about match fixing..
16.11.2011
nvrAlthough rich, they do not have infinite money. So when bringing a squad together, they take calculated risks. They do not spend money on players who can play in water logged or frozen pitches, just because they are going to play 3 games like that in a season.
La Liga has a very short winter break. It is not possible to keep a teams form at the peak throughout a season of 50+ games. So they plan the season ahead and try to be in form where it matters, say after the group stages in CL, or second half of the league. Google it, Guardiola has spoken about this many times.
Similar strategies are used over here in England too. We don't have a winter break at all, it's widely accepted that teams will have dips in their form. Some choose to start slow and get in form around end of October, some start to season on fire, dip around Christmas, and pick up after January.
16.11.2011
baekFirst of all there is no such thing as players who specialize in playing in certain weather conditions, and at no point did i suggest that barca should buy such players. I was simply stating that with Barca's finances they would be able to afford staff who know how to apply the proper tactics in adverse weather.
I understand also that no team is able to remain at the peak of their form throughout an entire season, however that does not mean that a team would not try to maintain it.
I believe the "dips in form" that you are referring to are due to factors such as complacency or fatigue rather than, as you previously suggested, purposely dipping their form.
16.11.2011
nvrOh, no. There are types of players suited to certain weather conditions. You know, if you can't pass around due to water on the pitch, you play long balls. If you play long balls, you need a tall striker. Hoof ball and all that...
No by dips in form, I mean exactly what I stated earlier. They plan to have bad form at certain stages of season. They do not try to not have it, instead they try to minimize the impact on their campaign by timing it.
16.11.2011
baekThat's a player suited to a style of play not a weather condition... Perhaps a style of play is suited to certain weather conditions but by no means is a player a rainy day specialist.
Are you honestly suggesting that a professional club will actually put a date in the calendar reminding themselves when to play bad? You can't seriously expect me to believe that. If you mean giving their first-team players a chance to rest and starting fringe players then sure, but please stop insisting that clubs will intentionally play bad because it's simply not true.
16.11.2011
nvrLet me put it this way; a player would need better stamina to pull a 90mins on a heavy pitch. If a team plays most of its games on heavy pitches, they would choose players with higher stamina over, say, agility. It's nice if you can have both, but players with stamina and agility are rare, so you'll have to choose. Taller, physical and high stamina players are better suited for bad weather conditions. Hence, English and Scandinavian players tend to be exactly like that.
The form dip is not only a fact observed by many, but also came directly out of horse's mouth. Guardiola himself told many times that he plans for bad form at certain stages of the season.
16.11.2011
baekA lot of players are both agile and have good stamina, they are professional footballers after all, and taller players are better in general not JUST in rainy weather. I'm sure if a club could get a player who is as fast and skillful as Messi and as tall as Peter Crouch they would.
And... "he plans for it" not "he plans to do it" 2 completely different statements. Planning ahead for something that you expect might happen and intentionally doing it are VERY different things, i don't understand how you don't see this.
16.11.2011
nvrHe plans for the the fact that his team's form will be bad at some stage during the season. He plans to have that inevitable dip at a time he chooses.
16.11.2011
baekyou CANNOT CHOOSE when to have a dip in form to prevent it in the future. Arsene Wenger DID NOT CHOOSE to lose 8-2 to Man Utd so that he would have a great season. Arsenal lost 8-2 because of a number of injuries and suspensions to first team players and of course some major players leaving in the transfer window...
Please don't be stupid and expect me to believe something like that, you're either trolling me or you misread an article somewhere on the internet.
16.11.2011
nvrNo need to get angry. You can manage your form timing, been done for decades now. Do some heavy training for a couple of weeks and your team will be crawling following weeks.
Arsene Wenger doesn't do it, he tries to overcome it by having a larger squad. Admittedly not working very well recently.
Guardiola prefers a smaller squad, and time when he will have his dips.
16.11.2011
ZolaI'll leave this here:
http://www.totalbarca.com/2011/opinion-pieces/table-done-why-barcelonas-start-to-the-season-has-been-phenomenal/
16.11.2011
baekSorry if i seem angry i'm just trying to emphasize my points with letter casing.
No doubt a team will be fatigued after heavy training for an extended period of time. However you have yet to clarify how this will prevent their form from dipping again later in the season. Please give me a source, a link, anything that proves that purposely choosing to play bad at certain point in a season will lead to a team avoiding playing bad again in the future..
16.11.2011
nvrA considerable amount of football training is actually endurance training:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_training
Read the bit about periodization.
16.11.2011
baekThis does not prove anything towards your points. You merely pointed out a training method within endurance training that might fatigue athletes over a period of time.
First of all you did not show that Pep would actually even use "periodization", let alone in the middle of a season.
IF Barca were to utilize such a training method they would no doubt do it Pre-season, NOT in the middle of a season when players would already be fatigued.
You have yet to show me a source of information that states that Pep intentionally has a dip in form to prevent a later onset.
16.11.2011
