jkelly2414The team I play for has some good players and some players who don't have much experience. I'm trying to find a formation that suits the following:
1 Fwd who is a great athlete w/ strong shot and is good in the air
1 Fwd who is very fast, but not a strong shot
1 CM who is very creative and very good passer
2 players who are both strong defenders and excellent passers
1 strong Defender who is big, fast and is good in the air
1 quick defender who is a weak passer
3 big defenders who are not very fast and are weak passers
4 midfielders who are slow, weak in defense, weak passers and don't know much about the game.
Please help with a formation that could be good for this squad. We've tried 4-4-2, 3-5-2, and recently a 4-2-3-1. The 4-4-2 didn't work bc we played defense too often and couldn't get our creative player forward enough. 3-5-2 worked ok, but our defense is lacking in marking ability. 4-2-3-1 worked well to start, but I think it confused most players so they didn't understand thier roles. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jay
05.10.2009
jmancubsfanWow, I almost posted the same thing with my own dilemma but it can wait. It sounds like you've really done all the leg work but your players are having trouble adjusting. Did you consider "calling" the the 4-2-3-1 something else to give players a better idea of their roles? What I mean by that is maybe you could call it a 4-4-1-1 or make it sound like the old Brazilian attacking 4-2-4. The lineups of all three are very similar but the difference in name is a matter of the players' concept of their roles.
Your CM definitely sounds like a center attacking mid so you do need to make sure he/she stays forward and only comes back to get the ball and start the attack. I didn't hear much about wing players though so you may wanna try the 4-1-2-1-2 or call it the 4-4-2 diamond if you think the mids would understand it better.
I hope that helps...
05.10.2009
jmancubsfanIf you don't have any wings you could just "hide" all of those extra mids out there in rotation but if you're wondering how I would align everyone else just let me know. I don't have the time right now...
Good luck
05.10.2009
jkelly2414Thanks for the reply jman! Yes, our wings are weak since our pacy players are our two strikers and one of our defenders. I'll try your idea of rephrasing the formation so the lesser experienced guys could understand. Great point. What would you suggest we set up for a formation lacking wing play all while keeping balance throughout the formation? Many thanks; J
05.10.2009
Sweeper5Did you include yourself in the list of players, and if not what are your strengths/weaknesses. Could impact any suggestions.
05.10.2009
jmancubsfanPhew, I'd have to ask that you try to figure out what those 4 midfielders are actually good at because you've basically said they're bad at everything important to being a good soccer player. But all things considered let me give you a rundown:
Play the two forwards as strikers. They can stay up, make runs for space and find the seams in the opponent's defense. That creative CM should be a center attacking mid and be sort of the center of the wheel- receiving and distributing the ball in every direction. Play the defenders that are excellent passers as left and right mids but notice in this 4-1-2-1-2 formation they don't need to play on the wing. They need to win the ball and play it to the CAM or the forwards. Play that strong, big defender in front of the D at center defensive mid as it sounds like he would be a good tackler and provide a good screen in front of the D without getting sucked up into the attack. This should take the pressure of your remaining defenders and make sure the one left with speed is one of the center backs in the back four. With a slow defense it's important that they drop their line anytime there's the threat of a through pass in space between a high pressing D and a goalie that's way back in net. I would try to rotate those 4 seemingly useless mids in a variety of spots (one at a forward, side mid, opposite side D, and maybe that CDM spot but not at center back) just to keep your best players fresh without having a "B" squad effect with a bunch of weaker players on the field at the same time. If you get a lead you may opt to incorporate more of your stronger defenders back into the four defense spots but trust me, they will be just as effective if not more by making speedy, aggressive tackles before it even gets to your defense.
This link should connect you to a picture of the 4-1-2-1-2 formation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:4-4-2_diamond.gif
If you end up trying this, I'd really like to hear how it goes... feel free to e-mail me at jeremyweaver@hotmail.com
05.10.2009
CaptainGerardIf you have a substandard bunch, start with basics, I'd say. Employ a flat 4-4-2, draw up a simple attacking plan and choose a defensive strategy. And see how things shape up later.
As a defensive strategy, I'd probably start with everyone behind the ball apart from forwards. Attackingwise, I'd go for long balls to your tall guy and your pacy guy could be there to support him.
06.10.2009
RicardoYou have a good basis for a team man!
Forwards:
1 Fwd who is a great athlete w/ strong shot and is good in the air
1 Fwd who is very fast, but not a strong shot
Attacking mid:
1 CM who is very creative and very good passer
Defensive mids:
2 players who are both strong defenders and excellent passers
Central defenders:
1 strong Defender who is big, fast and is good in the air - This guy runs forward on set pieces
1 quick defender who is a weak passer - This guy hangs back on set pieces
So far you have 2-3-2 and the core of a great side.
Two of the other three should be on the left and right of defence to check the crosses (just tell them to stand between the plater and goal, simple) and the third poor player should be told to stick to their playmaker like glue, often a simple direction like that works well and they love the challenge.
Enjoy :)
06.10.2009
jkelly2414Great comments all around, thank you guys! Yes, I did include myself as one of the 2 strong defenders with good passing ability. Lately I've been playing either sweeper or CDM. I'm comfortable at both spots since I played both in college. I like our forwards and CAM as they are very good players. It's tough for our guys to understand that we need to remain compact. Many insist on staying wide thus allowing for space between themselves and their central teammates. This is something I'm trying to correct. I will try the 4-1-2-1-2 and let you know how it pans out.
06.10.2009
jmancubsfanThe thing I love about the formation is that if that left and right and mids understand that they are not wings but rather box-to-box mids, it makes your team compact all by itself without much effort from players who wouldn't think about it otherwise. You'll find it very easy to defend a team with talented wing players as well as your left and right mid can step up into the passing lane to those wingers knowing that the wider left and right back will be there to mark that winger as they run the line.
06.10.2009
Sweeper5Midfield is where you will have the biggest hurdles, so I would either stock it with your strongest players, or bypass it.
The easier to implement would probably be the avoid midfield strategy. Play something like a 4-3-3, 4-3-2-1, 4-3-1-2 with the following personell. You (big good defender) and fast defender play center backs with the two players who are strong defenders and excellent plassers as the side backs. Next line is 3 defensive midfielders in the center of the pitch. These are 3 players picked from the 7 bad defenders and midfielders. The front line(s) is made up of the good forward, fast forward, and playmaker. Basically the three guys in the middle just clog things up and get in the way by sitting bunched up in front of the center backs. Even if they can't tackle, any passes through them or attempts to dribble through them will become more predictable and easier for the center backs to cut-off. The side backs can be used to initiate build-up and get it to the front three. The front three can be in lots of different arrangements, but I would probably go with big guy at center forward with the playmaker dropping in the hole, and the fast guy picking a wing and playing wide. If he has a dominant foot pick that side, otherwise match him up against the worst fullback (to beat the man to the end line and slot the ball back towards the penalty spot) or against the best fullback if he is the attacking variety, and basically play defense in the attacking third.
08.10.2009
Sweeper5The other way to go would be to try and press upfield and never let the ball get out of the opponents half.
To do this I'd go with 3-4-3 diamond. Starting in the back, the centerback is the fast defender who can't pass. The right and left back (or maybe marking backs if you want to go that route) are two of the bad defenders with the third subbing in on rotation. The midfield will be a diamond, with the big good defender (you) playing a holding role, the two good defenders and passers in the box-box roles, and the playmaker at the top of the diamond. The front three will be the big good forward in the center, the fast forward on one side, and bad midfielders on the other side.
The idea is to press and keep the ball in the opponents half. So the front three need to play aggressive defense in the attacking third when possession is lost. The 4 bad players need to sub constantly and run hard and harrass the side backs when they have the ball. They can sub for the other two (they'll probably need some breaks with all the running) but try to keep the stronger forwards on the field. The midfield will have to make the most transitions to keep shape, and probably all four will have to move up and back as a unit. You (defensive mid) will have the hardest job, not only playing in the midfield, but dropping all the way back into the middle when the center back inevitably runs to the side to cover for one of your bad defenders that got beat. Hope your fit.
The center back's job is to run people down and kick the ball out of bounds or back downfield towards a corner flag. Hopefully the high offsides line (around center field) and the pressing will encourage the opposition to start clearing the ball out of the back to their forwards. This should create footchase scenarios which will play to his strengths. When the ball does wind up in your own half, I'd bring back all four mids and defend with seven, dropping the DM into the back line. If their fullbacks try and attack the wing forwards need to track them.
08.10.2009
jmancubsfanI really like the descriptions Sweeper5 and to my amazement, you have pin-pointed exactly the two styles of play in my league. Every other team plays the 2nd description you listed and my team did also until this season. The hardest part of that 3-4-3 strategy is as you say, the defensive mid absolutely has to cover the box if the sweeper pulls out to the side and trust me, if your side backs aren't great, it will happen constantly. It only takes one mistake from the CDM or even just getting too far forward in attack and a goal is all to easy for the opposition. If you play this style and your the center defensive mid, stopper type, don't ever cross midfield and stay between your side backs. But, I think if you go with the other formation you'll enjoy the freedom to roam a little more with four defenders behind you.
I feel like as long as you have the center backs, especially with the right mentality, you should be able to pull off the first option that sweeper5 listed with much less effort and worry. Rather than putting all the pressure on one stopper in the center defensive mid area, playing something like a 4-3-1-2 or really anything with a flat back four, seems to take the pressure off of any one particular player. It allows everyone to find what they can do and just play their role in order to contribute to what the whole team is doing. I would add that it's important for the midfield to play tight to the center especially if you play that diamond mid sort of configuration (i.e. 4-1-2-1-2 or 4-3-1-2). They have to realize that there really is no reason to defend the wings at midfield. Your outside fullbacks can stop play from going to your own corner for crosses and your strikers, (or a winger if you go with the one-armed style that sweeper5 described,) can stretch their defense to the wings in the attack.
As I hinted at before, I've often found that if you play this 4-1-2-1-2 style against the typical 3-5-2 you will put their wing midfielder in a very tough situation. He has your side back in front of him when he attacks, your "side" midfielder nearby toward the center, and when the ball is lost, he has to run back and possibly cover a striker running down the wing into the corner. He has two players who can apply pressure against him and possibly a different player to run back and defend.
Good luck, we'll await the result...
P.S. Please all comment on my formation dilemma 2 if you find anything worth commenting on...
09.10.2009
FatbabiesSweeper and JMan are both right on. With similar talent level, I have employed the 3.4.3 diamond with much success. The last 6 games we have not lost and scored an average of 5 goals a game while giving up only 2 total. This strategy depends on your CMD for defensive coverage. They should be solid, fast and ready to commit to D. I usually don't let them pass the center line. But I have one player who can get back so I allow him more freedom then others. The D needs to be ready for those clears and put them right back in the opposition’s 1/3 when they have a free run at the ball. The FMD has to have a strong leg and crash to box on crosses. This is the majority of our goals, drive hard corner cross and their D gets caught deep we pop it from the top.
We start our post-season tourney soon; hope we have continued success.
21.10.2009
