tomwfootballBarcelona's line-up in the 4-1 Champions League quarter-final second leg victory over Arsenal in Barcelona in April 2010.
13.04.2010
FeriAtsKeita is not really an attacking player, is he? It was more of a 4-3-3
16.04.2010
kabulblueYou might be interested in this article: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/19/barcelona-4-2-4-formation-guardiola-messi/
16.04.2010
tomwfootballCheck out the average position data from the UEFA website: http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2010/2000480_tl.pdf
Keita played almost as high up the pitch as Pedro.
http://tomwfootball.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/a-tactical-guide-to-the-champions-league-semi-finalists/
16.04.2010
FeriAtsWhy don't we call it 2-4-4 then? Abidal and Dani Alves has played as high as Busquets.
Average touch positions are just that, where players touch the ball on average. If your opponent cannot match your quality, you end up playing with lots of possesion and your players on the flank appear higher up. I doubt that Guardiola said "alright chaps, we'll be playing 4-2-4 today and stun the football public a little bit more"
16.04.2010
tomwfootballKeita, Pedro, Alves and Abidal didn't play high up because Barcelona had lots of possession. Barcelona had lots of possession because Keita, Pedro, Alves and Abidal played high up. And if Barca's wide players aren't pressing the opposition's full-backs because Guardiola told them to, then why are they doing it? Group intuition? Hyperactivity? For a laugh?
Clearly, an over-reliance on average position data can lead to unnecessarily precise descriptions of a team's shape and Barca's 'true' formation in this game was probably somewhere between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-4. Still, it's noteworthy that, while people assume Barcelona still play in a fairly orthodox 4-3-3, the average position data - which is a pretty reliable indicator of a team's on-pitch shape - suggests otherwise.
16.04.2010
FeriAtsHere's a little experiment. Convince your team mates to play high up in your next Sunday league game and report us back about the possession.
Backs and wingers playing high up is not really a new phenomenon. Even during the reign of good old 4-4-2, if the opponent was weaker and you were playing at home, your backs would play most of the game in opponents half and your wingers would be in and around the box. It hurts to accept as an Arsenal fan, but the difference between the qualiy of two teams was that big.
16.04.2010
tomwfootballI think we're getting embroiled in a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation here. You think players playing in advanced positions is a consequence of the opposition's weakness; I think, in this instance, it's one of its route causes.
The Sunday league experiment wouldn't work in any case, because there are far more unpredictable variables in an amateur kickabout than in a top-level match like Barcelona-Arsenal.
I don't deny that full-backs have pushed on and wide players have pressed opposition full-backs for some time, but nobody has put opposition defences under quite the same relentless pressure as this Barcelona team. I agree that Barca are a much better team than Arsenal, but when they step out onto the pitch it doesn't happen by magic. Barca are better than Arsenal because of what they do on the pitch and one of the things they do better than almost any team in history is swarm all over their opponent's defenders when they lose possession. Hence the tendency towards 4-2-4. Hence the diagram.
16.04.2010
FeriAtsI guess we'll get a solution on the chicken and egg situation pretty soon. If they can pull the same thing against Inter in Nou Camp, I'll happily accept your point of view.
16.04.2010
dankov_14marquez to what should change and Keita to chop it off and leave this band at the center maxwell busquets or yaya toure and on the other side and front to rob xavi bojan and would place ibrahimovic
26.04.2010
nvrSo did Barca play 4-2-4 against Inter in Nou Camp?
05.05.2010
tomwfootballDepends how you look at it: http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2010/2000484_tl.pdf
It was probably closer to a 4-3-3 (with Busquets, Xavi and Keita in midfield; Messi, Ibrahimovic and Pedro up front) in the first half but by the end of the game they were throwing so many men forward that it was impossible to tell.
05.05.2010
larsenalblogI reckon it's a 4-2-4; interestingly enough Arsenal were playing a similar formation earlier in the year.
Can someone tell me how you get to the position graphs?
12.05.2010
nvrClick on the link that says "Draw a formation", a formation editor should come up. You'd need Flash though.
Once finished, click "draw this 11" button.
12.05.2010
blogbuenfutbolAbsolutely right!
31.05.2010
