NovoxDespite this not being a realistic outcome for the future of Chelsea, but by analyzing the current players available to them, my beliefs are that a 3412 would suit them the best, depending on the opposition.
Firstly, this would be a waste to use if the opposition were to field only 1 striker, but since the majority of england prefer to utilize a 4-4-2, this would leave Chelsea with a spare man with the back. Luiz has shown he has attacking capabilities so if one of the strikers drops back, he is more than capable of moving up the pitch to track him and convert himself into an anchor man in the middle of the pitch.
Lampard would stay planted and make himself simply avaliable as he is the playmaker whereas Essien would play a box-to-box by moving up and down the pitch and doing what he does best, putting in work. The wingbacks would provide MUCH needed width as well as tracking the wingers.
Finally, the front 3 have a strong understanding and it's still early days for Torres imho, but if he were to be played, I think it is Drogba who should be replaced as they are both CF and playing them together will only eat up the space they both thrive in.
23.02.2011
ZolaI would swap Lampard and Malouda's places for starters. Malouda is much more livelier than Lamps when it comes to defending.
I have my reservations about this Brazilian style formation though. I am not sure it will work in English football. The pace of the game is too high, it's not possible for just one man to cover the whole flank, at least not a season long.
24.02.2011
NovoxOnly reason I've placed Lampard deep is for the fact that the age is catching up and he no longer has the pace, so he is probably much more efficient playing as a Deep Lying Playmaker (Xavi-esque position) and Malouda can move in and out and drift wide. Though its a valid choice to swap them.
We've seen a taste of a "brazilian" style formation through Liverpool as they have played a back 3 a few times with success, so there is possiblities.
I do agree the english game is much faster and a squad like Chelsea doesn't have the Technical ability to play a brazilian or even spanish possession style game.
Just something to consider :)
25.02.2011
ZolaYeah, aging players is our biggest problem. I am not sure moving Lampard deeper helps him though. He'd need to tackle a lot more. That wouldn't help with his injuries.
Playing with attacking backs, sorry what Brazilians call these positions escapes me, is possible for a few games. I am more concerned about the implictions of sustaining it for a whole season. That's not doable IMHO.
25.02.2011
FeriAtsI wrote my thoughts about 3 men defenses earlier:
http://this11.com/topics/show/2166/on-whats-wrong-with-3-men-defense-formations
Not Chelsea spesific, of course, but most of it would still apply.
25.02.2011
NovoxLampard has played a few times as a DMC before for us so I have no doubts of his abilities. I don't think he is that injury susceptible. If he's going to get hurt, he'll get hurt either way :P
Playing with a Back 3 is very very effective against teams that use 2 Strikers. The issue is that it can be exposed by teams that switch to 1 striker which leaves us short 1 man elsewhere in the pitch.
Personally, I think people over-think and over-analyze tactical arrangements. Its simply the most efficient allocation of the best players available. If you can arrange that, then the individual performances could carry the team. Sure tactical arrangements such as Greece have brought success but thats because it's what suited those players best, and not because it was, on its own, a superior tactical decision all along.
27.02.2011
DioFirst of all, the Brazilian 3-5-2 works like a 3-4-3, cause the ofensive midfielder is more a striker than a playmaker. That's why Lampard should play as a centre midfielder.
About the wings defensive gap, the centre backs and the centre midfielders should give the necessary cover.
Also about the CMs, they should have good tackling skills, to be able to become ball winning midfielders when the team doesn't have the possesion(playing with 3 CB allow them to a more freedom positioning)....I think Chelsea have good players for these roles.
The only problem is that Bosignwa is not creativy enough for a RWB
28.02.2011
DioFeriAts, Playing with 3 CB is perfect against 2 strikers, because two of them make a man-man marking, while the other one stay back giving cover when they are beaten in speed or drible.
28.02.2011
NovoxIf we are talking about a "Brazilan 3-4-3", then I think it's safe to say that Anelka would probably fit in best as the Trequartista with Drogba and Torres up front together.
I'm not exactly referring to any Brazilian style or trend, this is merely an orientation of the players I think are the most efficient put together in 1 formation that could logically pan out. Reality is a whole another thing.
Personally, I think Bosingwa is a perfect wingback. Maybe not in the brazilian sense, but he makes the perfect players to act as a "defensive winger" who provides width and drops back to a fullback position.
The other issue that I see arising is the fact that Chelsea are already short of a CB until Luiz so switching to a 3 CB formation would put the CB's on even more strain to remain fit, though if Ivanovic returns into a CB, I can see it fit perfectly.
What you said about the 3 CB vs 2 Strikers is dead on :)
01.03.2011
FeriAtsDead on...arrival. No one's doing man marking in the defensive line for at least 2 decades now. Has it occured to you there might be a good reason for this?
Who do you guys suppose Rooney would have been man marked tonight? Who's quick enought to keep up with him?
01.03.2011
NovoxSorry took Man Marking in the "Football Manager" sense, where they stick tighter and press more the players in their zone.
The literal sense of man marking is not dead though, teams still use it but never as a whole team. They'll instruct individual players to man mark. It's also possible to man mark a player without having to stand right beside him the entire game.
The idea is that 2 of the CB's pressurize and play as "stoppers" on the 2 opposing ST, while the extra CB plays the cover role.
01.03.2011
DioCompletly agree with your last post,Novox, I mentioned the Brazilian style because you cannot play in this formation with the british sense.
And I remember Mourinho using a tight man marking system in the defensive line against Barcelona, when he coached Chelsea. Sure this system it's not a dead at all.
01.03.2011
GerrardTorresThis is sort of a 3-5-2, Cole and Bosingwa as wingbacks...but i do think its a good formation for Chelsea...where would Torres fit in though?
02.03.2011
NovoxBarcelona actually started with a similar system in their recent match against Valencia, the main difference was that they used a DMC rather than a AMC.
British football tends to just stick to 442 so I agree :P you can't exactly play a 3 man back line without being labelled Brazilian or Spanish.
Torres would fit in in place of Drogba. The reason I wouldn't put Drogba and Torres side by side is because they are both Center Forwards and they would be competing against each other for space which is counter-productive. Torres looks like he is willing to change his game but until he is comfortable playing in wide areas, I wouldn't play him with Drogba
03.03.2011
TheNearPostExcellent conversation and a nice post Novox!
I'd actually like to see Lampard in a deep-lying playmaker role. He seems to have the passing range, but does he have the passing consistency to really spray the ball around and help link/dictate play(Believe it or not, there is a difference). He seems more comfortable slashing defenses open with his vision rather than hitting the sort of passes to the flanks that, say, Paul Scholes would.
Just my opinion, though. I do think that a 3-4-1-2 for Chelsea is worth seeing. The way you have it switching to a 3-4-3 is quite clever as well.
I wonder how this would work as a 4-3-3/ 4-3-1-2 switching into something of a 3-4-3/3-4-1-2. John Obi-Mikel starts as the deep-lying midfielder/defensive midfieler and drops between the centerbacks, allowing the full backs to push on.
07.03.2011
NovoxI do agree Lampard might not have tendencies to play a role similar to Paul Scholes, but his intelligence on the pitch and vision will compliment him in a deep-lying role, given the opportunity and the instructions, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him playing killer through balls.
John Obi Mikel has the potential to play an amazing "Center-Half" role (Role similar to Busquets role at Barcelona) if he wasn't so prone to dwelling on the ball and making silly mistakes.
Ancelotti seems to have found a rythme with a 442 though by giving a lot of fluidity and freedom of movement. It makes for beautiful football, but whether it'll be successful or not is still up for debate. Bayern were in the hunt to play beautiful football and all it brought onto them was disappointment.
26.03.2011
