RavenbarberThis is a group of current players that could really give Barcelona a tough time. I chose Wilshire and Yaya Toure in the middle ahead of the likes of De Jong and Van Bommel because they get flustered less easily and are less likely to get carded.
31.05.2011
RelevatedNo United players?
31.05.2011
Relevatedkuyt? LOL.
31.05.2011
RavenbarberYes Kuyt, Relevated. He is one of the best defenders from the front in the world, doesn't lose his marker as easily as Park does and is usually a goal threat as well when everyone around him is playing well.
01.06.2011
manutdtillidieI would go for
01.06.2011
01.06.2011
03.06.2011
SpaceGhostThe shape Ravenbarber proposes is the best way to deal with Barca's false 9 formation. The more interesting question is, are their any club sides that could effectively play it? Liverpool is an obvious one, but for my money Tottenham had the best personnel this past season to pull it off.
04.06.2011
Ravenbarberzamir_beck, I like your team, although Drogba up front for me is a gamble, because he loses his head so often in high pressure situations, and any game against Barca will be an intensely high pressure situation for most teams.
Van der Saar is a weakness too, because he is more of an organiser than being good at shot stopping. He has been undone by Barca way too many times and with way too much comfort. You need a world class shot stopper, that's why Casillas always looks better than he actually is against Barca. (To me he shouldn't even be Spain's number two.)
SpaceGhost, I wonder the same thing as you: are there any teams in the world that could play a reliable and intelligent back three at the back? Or at least a back four comprised of four centre backs, with a sweeper and a libero?
The thing with that system if for it to work, the team needs to have real, tangible experience to make it work, or it will backfire dismally. If you just try it as an antidote against Barca, you could become embarrased and humiliated in no time. All Pep needs to do to make it come apart at the seems is to switch Messi to his right sided position, a position where he has played most of his career and in which he has great experience in. Three forwards against a back three is a recipe for disaster. They will pull that thing out of position so quickly it WOULD be funny.
My belief is still that whatever system you play, if Barca play to their potential, if they are in good form and have confidence, then they are virtually impossible to beat. How many teams can one say that about that in history?
06.06.2011
RavenbarberBy the way SpaceGhost, envious of your Cruyff avatar. Got nothing against the Frenchman, but look like I'm stuck with the president of UEFA, "Fairplay" Platini.
06.06.2011
nvrThe teams that came close to beating Barca, or already have beaten them used "park the bus" tactics. Incidentally two of them were Mourinho's teams. Tactical dicipline seems more important to me than personnel. I don't see how a 3 men defense will stop them even if you have all the talent.
@Ravenbarber
You can upload your own avatar. Look at my shiny Arsenal kit.
06.06.2011
diegojapaPepe? hahahahaha
07.06.2011
SpaceGhostAfter re-reading my post I realize that it doesn't really state what I'm thinking. Let me rephrase.
I think when playing Barca it's a game of "pick your poison". They are dangerous everywhere, so you try to scheme against the greatest dangers, and take your chances against the other ones.
That said, teams should put a diamond in midfield to cancel out the diamond that Barca form between Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi. You can't beat them here, but you can crowd the space that they work in and try to make them attack in different ways - probably by moving the ball wide.
If you start with a diamond in the center of midfield then there are only a few options for how you field the other 6. So you wind up playing a 4-3-1-2, a Bielsa style 3-3-1-3, or a 3-6-1 like what Liverpool fielded to beat Chelsea. I think playing 4-3-1-2 would leave Barca's fullbacks with too much freedom (unless you are parking the bus and don't care), so you are left with a 3 man back line. It has it's dangers, but there are also advantages to this. I like King Kenny's diamond 3-6-1 for this job, if the wide players are wingbacks, or a combination of a wingback on one side and a wide midfielder/winger on the other side. These players can come high up the pitch to pressure the fullbacks, but always stay goalside of the ball when out of possession. This means they essentially track the Barca fullbacks, mostly just Alves, and when Barca are in your third you wind up with a 5 man defense anyway. You might be 5 vs. 5 here, but it isn't about man marking. It's about crowding space and staying compact. And, I think the wide player on the non Dani Alves side get's to stay much higher up the pitch and be available for transitions into attack. The wide player on the other side, who is going against Dani Alves would be a fullback, who could drop in to form a back 4 if Barca change shape.
With a 4 man back line, if Messi is going to drop off, then a CB has to follow or the midfield is outnumbered, or worse Messi has time and space. If a CB follows, and Pedro and Villa both come inside, which they will, it is 2 vs. 1. Even if both CB's stay put, it is 2 vs. 2 in the center. Better to put an extra man defending the hole and squeeze in with three defenders so you are still a man up in the center. The front three will probably move wide to find space, which is dangerous, but I'd rather give them that space and defend crosses against the midgets. It's about picking your poison.
With a fully fit Tottenham from last season I think you can field players for each role. You don't need 3 classic CB's across the back. There are multiple defenders who could play disciplined and do the job in the back line, but still be comfortable and fast enough to defend in wide areas when needed, and height is less of an issue. Maybe play Assou-Ekotto - Dawson - Gallas, or push Gallas to the center and play Corluka or Hutton on the right. In the center there are multiple combinations to consider. I'd probably pick Sandro, Palacios, Modric, and Van der Vaart. If you want Huddlestone in at the base of the diamond, then push Sandro right and take Palacios off, but I'd like to see Sandro screening the back three and going against Messi. On the wings it's Bale and Lennon. Up front I'd start Defoe for pace, and bring in an aerial threat for plan B.
09.06.2011
09.06.2011
zamir_beckdiegojapa laughin at my pepe's inclusion.mst b avram grant's student.
10.06.2011
Ravenbarber
Thanks for another thoughtful comment, Spaceghost. You really seem to believe that Tottenham have the raw qualities and personal to trouble Barcelona, and you might be right, but only if all of the players on the pitch absolutely deliver the game of their lives, or if Barcelona have a really off night.
The truth however is more complicated: you can have a Rest Of The World XI against them, but if the Midgets From Mars play to their potential, they will start dominating the game eventually and then it becomes a matter of how you cope with feeling inferior during those moments and maintain belief. The reason I believe Barcelona beat Manchester United so handsomely was the dreadful mistake of playing a 4-4-2 (ok, 4-4-1-1), or playing to your own strengths instead of trying to nullify Barcelona man-for-man, but more importantly, Barcelona was a much more rested team, and the result was that Pedro and Villa were far sharper. They were essentially back to their old selves, and of course Barca love a big occasion and to put on a football show. Messi I believe felt less pressure and could thus express himself more naturally, not having to take responsibility for most of their efforts on goal.
I still don’t know how it is possible to face Barca when they are at their best; when they are on song, brimming with confidence and no player has to feel that he has added responsibility because a few players are not at their best. Barca is a great team that not always play fantastically; no great team can deliver stratospheric heights each and every game. But they do however deliver those great heights more consistently I believe than any other great team from the past, because they have such an inbred philosophy of play. That said, they might also be one of the great teams in still delivering even when they are not at their best.
As the commentator said during the 5-0 Real Madrid victory, “If you find yourself in a little triangle between Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, you have no chance.” It is not just that they are superior technically to everybody else in the world right now, they are also smarter and react quicker and know better than anybody else how to make their strengths count. I know there have been wonderful duos in the history of football in all areas of the pitch, whether they be central back pairings or striking partnerships, but has there ever been such a magnificent partnership with three players this gifted, and in such a crucial part of the pitch, where they are at the absolute centre of the action almost all of the time? I don’t think so.
Anyways, this post was supposed to be a more crtical look at Barca and me engaging far more with thoughtfully with the points you made, but I have succumbed to idolatry once more, and for that I apologise.
Barca’s biggest strength? An immensely gifted bunch of players, many of whom would walk into a World XI, a few even making into an All Time XI, that play wholly as a team. Fantastic.
10.06.2011
16.06.2011
