SiPeakeIs the best XI of players still playing today? It would be my choice - what do you think?
PS> For more info on all the great players and teams of the past see this great website:
http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/
09.07.2011
SanzI would say:
Casillas
Alves
Vidic
Pique
Cole
Alonso
Xavi
Messi
Iniesta
Ronaldo
Villa
6 Barcelona
3 Real Madrid
1 Man Utd
1 Chelsea
10.07.2011
10.07.2011
10.07.2011
11.07.2011
RavenbarberWith regards to my team selection up top, everybody who is there is supposed to be there, with the exception perhaps of Cristiano Ronaldo. He only makes the cut because we are talking about a best XI on paper. Barcelona's midfield is ported wholesale, because it is arguably the greatest midfield ever assembled (with Messi contributing to forming an almost unstoppable diamond).
Ronaldo, in my opinion, lacks severely in the technique, vision, intelligence, speed of thought and selflessness departments, so in a true World XI of mine, he wouldn't make the cut. But I can't deny his quality as a forward and a goal scorer. He just isn't capable of making things happen on the ball the way Barcelona players, and particularly Messi, do. He is only as good as the service he receives. He is in essence a traditional forward, but one whose pace, power and ferocious hunger allows him to get into the box from wide positions. like so:
Despite his step-overs, he hardly ever beats players where it counts, and he is usually pretty tosh against really good opposition, i.e. Puyol and Pique, who have had had the measure of him for years.
Whoopsy! This has turned into a bit of CR7 bashing session. Totally unintended.
I tought of Neymar instead of Eto'o, but you cannot talk seriously of a World XI without having Eto'o in there. He is a true legend, and will be regarded as such in the not too near future. Two consecutive trebles with two different clubs? Never been done, as far as I know. Just a supreme player, and a smidgen better than Villa, in my opinion.
Whoopsy,
11.07.2011
RavenbarberNow I wonder how the aforementioned guys will do against this lot:
11.07.2011
GeorgieWasTheBestYou have to watch Ronaldo under SAF's command to see what he really is capable of. Mourinho used him as a mere counter attack weapon, which doesn't do his skills any justice.
11.07.2011
JimmyGuitarist@Ravenbarber -
How do you post pictures?
11.07.2011
manutdtillidieCopy and paste Raw link
11.07.2011
11.07.2011
Aidan0s@Jimmyguitarist When I saw your failed posts earlier i was tempted to say how I presumed you were attempting to post a diagram of the main barca 11, based on other posts you made on this site, and now I am very disapointed I didn't. Although I am a Madrid fan and so would probably notice the pro barca posts more but their is a certain common theme through your posts. For the record though I do believe barca are still that level above madrid and would have a good share of the theoretical world 11 (also when a side is so superior to the opposition it is only natural to presume that their system is the best and as some of the barca players fit this system better than anyone it would increase the amount of them anyway) and I do think you dont actually believe barca's starting 11 is the best in the world (but if you do you should attempt to be more impartial which i genuinely believe I am take Ravenbarber as an example who posted an interesting review on madrid and barca's player rating's for the season although I slightly disagree with some but only by .5 for one or two players on both teams but the ratings on both teams would have being the same if added together)
Also @ravenbarber your back 4 for the all time 11 is interesting (while I agree with it) as its so common when you look at midfield nearly everyone would disagree with eachother with at least one position the defense you selected is unusually common
also I agree with most of what you said about Ronaldo (its unusual to see a player attempt tricks so often yet so seldom
actually use one to get past a player, its usually his remarkable pace) and I agree with the eto neymar thing (eto is probably the best striker in the world, since 2000 has anyone scored more goals i'm actually curious on this one and neymar is one of the most naturally gifted player I have seen people judge him on copa america and say if he isn't making it there then he isn't good enough for european football but when the team is organised poorly even Messi can struggle and I have never seen a 19 year old under as much pressure as him (19 year olds have played at world cups but were never expected to be the star for the largest footballing nation in the world )
Also@ georgiewasthebest
on an individual basis this was Ronaldo's best season and everybody saw him play united too anyway so its not exactly like people are solely basing their opinions of him on his madrid performances and madrid still scored 102 goals in the league their not an exclusively counter attacking team
12.07.2011
RavenbarberHey football friends. Good to see a lively debate on this forum. Thanks for starting it, SiPeake.
Thanks for your sober, yet inspiring words, Aidan0s. I must say though that I would have enjoyed reading your post even more if there was punctuation in it. Good comments, nonetheless.
Since this fantasy football thing is so much fun, check out this link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/06/20/alltime.tournament/index.html
It is the first part in a (completed) four part series of a fantasy tournament of all-time great club sides by Jonathan Wilson, perhaps the best football writer on the planet. I guarantee that this will send shivers of pleasure down your spines. Enjoy. It is just sublimely written and conceived. For my part, I think he is right as to the ultimate outcome, but only because he very creatively chose an almost foolproof loophole.
12.07.2011
RavenbarberWith regards to Aidan0s's comment on JimmyGuitarist's Barca-slanted World XI, I do remember that an English commentator said during a match (it might have been the 5-0 El Clasico at the Nou Camp) that a team consisting of the other best players in the world probably couldn't beat Barcelona at that stage, when they were at their strongest. But I agree with Aidan0s that although Barca is the best, they are not perfect.
Although I think Abidal improved remarkably throughout the season (to my mind he was the best player on the pitch in the first leg of the Quarter Final Champions League tie against Arsenal), and his wonderful form was cut short by his ilness, he is still slightly problematic in that he doesn't quite have the attacking thrust that is necessary to make Barca tick with maximum efficiency. When he has the ball, he usually pushes on until the half way line or so, turns back and passes to Busquets or Pique. He is good at maintaining possession in his disciplined way, but doesn't offer any creativity or true width from that side. Rarely will you see him really push on to the touchline on that left hand side, or cut inside to create chances for Villa or the oncoming Iniesta. Perhaps that is one of the reasons that Villa started to struggle with goals later on in season. He had too much to do on that left hand side and was too wide most of the times because Abidal can't give him the width to operate narrower. But he does provide a certain balance in the team to compensate for the marauding Alves on the other side. I really believe that someone like Coentrão would be able to unlock the full attacking potential of this Barcelona side. I think that that is the main reason that Madrid bought him, to keep him from Barcelona who apparently couldn’t catch a clue in the transfer market if it hit them on the head. Two swashbuckling, Alves-type fullbacks in one team would be too much for most managers to cope with.
I already outlined all of this in this forum I created: http://this11.com/topics/show/5480/how-barcelona-could-become-absolutely-perfect
Anyways, always interesting to pick up on a true Madrid-Barcelona rivalry, of sorts. I’m an Arsenal fan, so I get my entertainment in this little corner of the world, these days.
12.07.2011
JimmyGuitarist@Aidan0s -
I'm not responding to what you said about lots of my posts having a similar theme. Yes, I mention Barca a lot, but on threads what are about Barcelona. And as you can obviously tell, I'm a huge fan of how they play the game.
You're a Madrid fan, so it'll probably be impossible to convince of just how many levels Barca are above Madrid, so I won't try to convince you. Atleast you accept they're 'that level' above Madrid.
"I do think you dont actually believe barca's starting 11 is the best in the world" - Well, it does seem like I'm devaluing other players who arn't in the Barca first team, but yes; I do believe that last years team was 'perfect'. I hate using the term perfect, but I believe that were by far the most superior team last season. Both as a team, and individually.
12.07.2011
mbillington10How much of Barcelona's team is selected depends on the question being asked.
If by 'the best XI playing now' you mean, which eleven world players are the most outstanding in their individual positions, then it is possible to make arguments for many players other than Barcelona players.
This can be seem by taking the Barcelona players out of their club context, e.g. Messi for Argentina and Dani Alves for Brazil. Both are underwhelming at international level when compared to club performances, which shows the importance of Barcelona's tactical system and years of practice together in maximising player performances. Therefore you could make the argument that Maicon is a better right back, or that you would rather have Eto as a forward than Messi as a number nine in your team. Or perhaps you would rather have C. Ronaldo cutting in from the left instead of Villa. Perhaps you prefer Ozil to Pedro.
However, if by 'the best XI playing now' you mean which team of players would play best together from a current world selection, it would be very difficult to find any player who could perform their team role better than the Barcelona players have this season. Perhaps you could argue that Coentrao would provide more attacking thrust than Abidal, but that begs the question of whether he would be able to cover as a third central defender when Alves runs so far forward, in the way Abidal does. Therefore by putting a more attacking left back, you may inhibit Dani Alves slightly. Further, C. Ronaldo may not make the same penetrating runs as Villa, instead prefering to receive the ball and run at the defence on his own, which would probably inhibit Barcelona's intricate attacking plays.
The only player I can possibly think of who would better Barcelona's first eleven, is Thiago Silva. This is because he is a very intelligent defender with excellent positioning. He is quick enough to compensate for a high defensive line and also possesses excellent distribution skills which is why he has played in midfield for Milan. But even with T. Silva, I wouldn't know whether to take out Puyol or Pique.
12.07.2011
RavenbarberExcellent points, as usual, mbillington10. Always good to read your comments. Sensible and insightful.
This thread started as pure fantasy: a World XI of sorts. But there's no denying that Barcelona's method is the best working one at the moment. Throw the best players in the world together, in their respective positions, and there's no gaurantee that they will play well together. Sure you can say that C. Ronaldo is a better player than Villa, perhaps a much better left-sided player than Villa especially, but will he give you the team ethic, professionalism and attitude of Villa? Probably not. Ronaldo's shoulders slump as soon as things don't go his way. That is a fundamental weakness in his game, I believe, just like it was in the game of Thierry Henry. When things aren't going your way as a team, that is when you need your best players to exhibit their mental strength. That's why the Zidanes and the Maradonas and the Platinis are still so legendary. Messi, although his mentality is pretty good, is still too young in the head, and perhaps too coddled to rise to the occassion when the chips are down.
My point, before I drift too far from it, is that you could have a theoretically better player than Villa, or Abidal in that Barcelona team, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will make for a better team. I think mbillington10 is spot on in that regard. Football is such an intuitive thing, and the dynamic of a team is such a delicate thing that there will probably never be such a thing as a perfect team, even though I tried to prove exactly such a thing in my "How Barca could become perfect" thread. For instance, Puyol may be old and even past his prime now, but that doesn't mean the team will necessarily play better with a more hot shot player, although I will say that Thiago Silva is pretty special.
In any case, I really hope that David Villa gets his due credit soon. He is such a wonderful player and ambassador. He just gets on with things, despite being a global superstar. Top player, top mentality that still plays his heart out even when things don't go his way or even if he is out of form. To me, he is fundemental to Barca's success in 2011, despite having gone on a barren spell for like 10+ games or something. Rambling now...
12.07.2011
13.07.2011
RavenbarberI'm surprised at your selection, mbillington10. Not a single, reliable ball winner in the middle of your park. Surprising indeed.
13.07.2011
mbillington10Ravenbarber, thank you for your comments, always insightful and appreciated.
I'm also surprised by my lack of a ball winner. I should have explained my selection. I decided to pick the most commonly used formation this year, 4-2-3-1, and then pick my favourite 11 players in each position. In order to avoid selecting Barcelona's first team, I decided not to worry about how they would play together, whether the formation would work, or whether this would get the best out of each of them. Instead I just selected my favourite eleven players at the moment.
You are quite right to point out that if I was thinking tactically I would have to make changes. I would have to swap Buffon for a sweeper keeper, such as Valdes or Reina, to compensate for the high defensive line. I would have to replace Xabi Alonso with a ball winner, such as Busquets or De Rossi. And I would have to select a left footed left back to get the best out of Ronaldo, otherwise they would both be cutting inside (note how much more effective Ronaldo is when playing with Marcelo, who overlaps so ronaldo can cut inside, in comparison to arbeloa who also wants to cut inside like ronaldo).
So no tactical considerations were given to my eleven, just my favourite players currently playing in those particular positions. Although, Manchester United played very successfully in the Champions League with no ball winning midfielder, in fact, their best performances in the competition were with Carrick and Giggs in the holding positions, which has me considering whether ball retention and clever movement could compensate for the lack of a Mascherano/De Jong type of player. But that's a debate for another time...
13.07.2011
JimmyGuitarist
3-4-3. This was the most unbiased team I could pick without picking the Barca first team. I to am a fan of Thiago Silva, probably wouldn't work excellently in the position I've put him, but he's a bloody good defener none-the-less.
Alves as the RM, basically what he is for Barca anyway, and sprint up and down the wing as usual to defend and attack. It took me ages to come up with this because I do just think that the team you know I'm thinking of were just all sublime last year. But I found it impossible to put anyone else in Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta's positions, so I just put them. Messi's just a given in anyones favourite XI.
Ironically, Sanchez is just about to sign for Barca, but I like him a lot ever since I saw Chile at the World Cup. You can tell why they've signed him up too because he's got a football brain. He's very aware and has good vision. He definitely needs to improve, but I'm sure he will for Barca. Neymar is definitely still raw, but he's another one who will definitely get better depending on what club he goes to.
14.07.2011
paadfootThis would be my best XI
16.07.2011
paadfoot
I hope this time it shows!
16.07.2011
paadfoot@JimmyGuitarist
I don't know how well you know Neymar, but I am brazilian, and I have been watching him play for almost 2 years now. He wouldn't be in my top XI at this point of his career. I believe he has the potential to be an awesome player (specially if he stays in Brazil until the World Cup - but that's only me being an optimist). Neymar's problem is that he is too selfish, he can - and should - improve in that aspect of the game.
I also don't know if you have seen Paulo Henrique Ganso playing. He plays with Neymar at Santos FC, and now at the Selecao in Copa America. He is, in my opinion, the best brazilian nowadays. His vision and ability are incredible, he plays old-fashion football, he is slow, but he makes the ball goes fast - and that's what matters! Ganso is not having a good Copa America, and even so, he is the player with most assists so far on the competition.
16.07.2011
paadfootAs for my all-time XI 
Maybe I am being a little partial, but I truly believe that this would be one of the most amazing teams of the world.
Lev Yashin is believed to be maybe the best keeper of the world.
Carlos Alberto Torres as right-back (I don't know the name of this position in english, since he plays too offensive football to be called a full-back) played in the best team of all-time, Brazilian National Team of 1970. Also Clodoaldo and Rivelino played there, and obviously Pelé.
16.07.2011
18.07.2011
18.07.2011
18.07.2011
zladyJuve 2011/2012
29.07.2011
brunosxt@Ravembarber and Zico , the best player in the 80th !
13.08.2011
Croco
Here's another ticket to ride the carousel, Sir Alex... ;-)
Right now, I'd rather have Kun and Villa up front given their form, especially the former as I've got him positioned to unload another stunner like his second against Swansea. But getting Xavi, Messi and Iniesta going is a key in this formation as well (kudos to JimmyGuitarist...I would have never seen that if you didn't point that out). When those three are on together, not even Viking gods could stop them. Also, I fancy Messi and Villa working the give-and-go to flawless perfection.
I would have selected Michael Essien for my midfield enforcer, but it's hard when he's injured all the time, and I like De Rossi's no-nonsense approach as well. I see a lot in common with those two.
24.08.2011
